An Interview of Phil Kavesh’s Two Most Senior Employees
Interview by Kristina Schneider, Practice Success Coach
I had the most amazing experience to go on a trip with nationally renowned estate planning attorney and Ultimate Estate Planning Attorney, Phil Kavesh’s, Law Firm Office Manager (Arlyn V. or “AV”). We went out to Florida to visit with his Senior Estate Planning Paralegal (Elaine A. or “EYA”). Elaine just celebrated her 34th anniversary working for Phil and Arlyn will be celebrating 30 years this August.
During our trip, not only did we get the opportunity to stop by a client’s office and help with some of their issues, but I also got to sit down with Elaine and Arlyn and ask them about their time working for Phil. I thought their insight and wisdom would be so helpful for other estate planning attorney business owners working to build the kind of well-oiled machine that is Phil’s law firm, Kavesh, Minor & Otis (“KMO”).
Enjoy!
QUESTION: When did you start working for KMO and what was your role?
AV: I started working for KMO in 1994 and I started in the mailroom. My primary job was to help with marketing. We did a lot of direct mail marketing at that time for our seminars. At that time, I was not really sure what I wanted to do as far as a career. I had gone to school to be a medical assistant and I realized quickly that was not something I wanted to do. I would never have known that I’d be where I am today.
EYA: I started in 1990 and was hired to help with word processing (drafting living trusts). I went to college in China and was an English major before coming to the U.S. to go to Middlebury College in Vermont. I would visit Los Angeles during the summer breaks from school to stay with my friend from college. One of those summers, I met my husband and then made LA my home.
QUESTION: What is your current role?
AV: I am currently the Director of Operations, which serves as an office manager which includes HR functions as well. I moved from my original role in the mailroom to an office assistant before the firm had me assist with word processing. It was following the 2007 Financial Crisis, when the firm was forced to downsize that, with the help of Elaine, Phil realized the benefit of having me take over to manage the firm. By then, I had 13 years of experience working for the firm and I was very knowledgeable in all of the roles at the firm. I was able to do both office management and continue to help the Estate Planning department with drafting. I remember Phil had me take a Kolbe assessment test, which confirmed that I was a “stickler for rules”. This gave Phil confidence that I would be the right person to put in charge to enforce procedures and firm policies on his behalf. I now do both office management, along with managing our Estate Administration department, as that department has grown considerably in recent years and has become a huge profit center for the firm.
EYA: I am still drafting the estate plans for the firm, turning around anywhere from 60 to 75 living trusts or amendments in any given month. At one time, I had managed the staff while another person was in charge of the associate attorneys. When she left the firm, I was asked to oversee both. In 2000, my husband was relocated to the East Coast. I went to resign, but Phil encouraged me to continue working with him, but keep the tasks that were possible to do remotely. I continued to draft the estate plans, while also managing the associate attorneys (along with any hiring and training of new associates). I was doing remote work before remote work was even a thing following the pandemic!
QUESTION: What has been your favorite part about working for KMO?
AV: I really like the challenge that my job brings. I like to problem solve and analyze what’s happening and figuring out how to make things better. I learned a lot from Phil over the years, including what kinds of metrics and reporting we should be doing to understand the performance of the firm. It keeps us focused on hitting our goals and ensures that we are profitable. I never realized how much I enjoyed these tasks until I was asked to do them by Phil and he helped train me. For the tasks that I don’t really like to do, like talking with clients, I have Elaine who can help with that. I also really enjoy teaching the new staff coming in all of the firm’s processes and systems. I get a lot of gratification out of seeing employees grow and move up in the firm.
EYA: I feel like my job utilizes my natural talents and strengths. I have honed my skills over the years, of course. But, whatever I had within me, this job has helped me tap into that and thrive in that space. I did not know that I was so great at customer service and with communicating with clients. I had a lot of interaction with clients and staff when I worked in the office, but once I became remote, my interaction with other people went down considerably. I am so happy that the firm still turns to me to communicate with clients. Sometimes that’s the only people I interact with (outside of my husband, of course). I think my strengths combined with Arlyn make us a great duo together, tapping into the things we both are good at and love to do. I really do enjoy drafting and being a part of form creation with Phil. Form creation with Phil is one of the few tasks that I have where I get to directly work side-by-side with Phil and I really do enjoy it, despite what Phil might think!
QUESTION: What advice would you give to other people in a similar role?
AV: As the Office Manager, it’s important that you know and understand everyone’s jobs and roles and ensure that the firm has coverage. This includes cross-training to ensure that if someone is out sick or on vacation, you have the coverage that you need. But also, as Office Manager, I have always seen it as my responsibility to step in where necessary to make sure that the firm is running smoothly. How can an office manager manage and oversee people and ensure that they are doing their jobs properly if they themselves don’t know how to do it? We learned with past office managers who were brand new to the firm and who didn’t know anything about individual tasks, it just never worked out. Nobody could respect that kind of manager. I help pitch in wherever my team might need it. One thing with KMO that we do intentionally is that we promote from within. I am a shining example of starting from the ground up. We instill in our employees that there is always room for advancement if they have demonstrated drive and interest and their skill set is compatible. This is probably one of the main reasons we retain people long-term when the right employee comes along.
EYA: I think that it’s important to utilize people based on their natural strengths and aptitudes. I have seen it time and time again, when people are in roles they enjoy, they thrive in those roles and they will remain long-time hires. It doesn’t mean that people get to cherry-pick their tasks. Not every task that comes with your job is going to be something that you are going to love and enjoy, but if they are doing primary tasks that tap into their natural strengths, that works well for most people. When I look at all of the people who have worked for Phil for all these years (yourself included, Kristina), I can really see how those people are thriving in the roles that are a natural fit for them!
QUESTION: Any final words to share?
EYA: I have to give Phil a huge shout-out here. I grew up in this firm and learned everything that I know from him. He has held us to a higher standard. His perfectionism always forced me to put forward my best effort and that, in turn, brought the best out of me. The firm is where it is today because of him. He has entrusted Arlyn and me to run this firm over the past few years as he stepped back. We have been able to take all of the knowledge he’s imparted to us over the years and it allows us to be successful in our roles. The result is a successful law firm. Phil has been so good to us and his loyalty to us has resulted in a blind loyalty returned back from not just myself, but so many of those who are still here working for him. From the bottom of my heart, I thank Phil for everything. This job has become a major part of my personal identity. I have put so much of my own blood, sweat and tears into it. It makes me so proud and has given me a level of confidence in myself that I never knew was possible.
AV: I echo everything Elaine just said. You don’t see many firms where you see this many employees celebrating the kinds of anniversaries we have—Elaine (34), myself (30), Peter (21), Kristina (20), Jane (19), ShantaDee (16), and Kirsten (9). I think it speaks volumes about the kind of boss that we have. He has mentored us on how to run this firm and the systems we have in place have stood the test of time. What a special firm we have!
CONCLUSION
I really enjoyed interviewing Arlyn and Elaine about their experience working for Phil. Mostly because it resonated so much with me and my own personal experiences working for Phil and also validated a lot of the things that we teach here at The Ultimate Estate Planner, Inc. From the idea of the Office Manager role being someone promoted from within, but who really worked his or her way up in the firm. Further, remote work is so popular these days, but it’s not always a realistic or ideal structure for all roles in the firm. I do think it makes the most sense for those paralegals who are drafting, because the amount of day-to-day interruptions from others can really make them inefficient. Elaine has successfully been able to improve her own efficiency in drafting simply from removing herself from the day-to-day operations. Lastly, I know that Phil and I have talked about it quite often, but the importance of mentoring employees. Millennials and the younger generation are constantly being told they’re “lazy” and “don’t want to work”. I had an attorney once told me that his associate needed to learn how he did—on his own and through his own research. There are far better ways to do this and to cut the learning curve. Phil has said that it was the time he invested and took with his key employees—associates, office manager, assistants, and paralegals—he is now reaping the benefits of that time exponentially with two profitable businesses that are essentially running themselves the way he would have if he wasn’t so busy traveling the world and enjoying the semi-retired life.
I hope that you got a lot of golden nuggets to take away from this tremendous amount of experience. We are happy to help you and your firm wherever we can to achieve these types of results! 😊
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Kristina Schneider is a Practice Success Coach at The Ultimate Estate Planner, Inc. She graduated with a Bachelor’s Degree in Business Administration from Pepperdine University in 2004 and was hired right out of college to work for the Law Firm of Kavesh, Minor & Otis, coordinating and facilitating Philip Kavesh’s “Missing Link” Boot Camps while also providing administrative support to Mr. Kavesh as his Executive Assistant for over seven years. Through her direct hands-on experience in Mr. Kavesh’s law firm, Kristina has assisted numerous estate planning professionals through The Ultimate Estate Planner and, equally as important, many of their staff members, in the successful implementation of Ultimate Estate Planner’s products and systems. She is currently pursuing her MBA degree from Pepperdine University Graziadio Business School. You can reach Kristina at (424) 247-9495 or by e-mail at kristina@ultimateestateplanner.com.